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I am a solo professional (hence my title on this board.) I don't have a product nor do I have a team. (I am just setting the context for this question.)

I am in contact with other copywriters and I have a good grasp of the average price range of typical copy projects.

(Some unconstructive stuff edited to lower the temperature:)

Here's the question: very small company owners and managers never, ever seem to ask me up front how I would approach your job or what I have done before that resembles it. In 95% of the cases with smaller businesses who approach me, the initial question from the lead is "what is your pricing/rate?"

It never, ever seems to be a satisfactory answer to this type to say "well, what do you want to have done?"

I am not a prima donna - I have had too many teeth kicked in over the years. But the "labor rate" driven question always seems to lead no where.

And I believe it is beneath me (yup, you got it) to answer the up front rate/price question directly - unless it is some fixed price special I am running.

The usual dialog along these lines goes like this:

  • Them: "How much is your rate?"
  • Me: "I quote by the job. What do you need specifically?"
  • Them: "We want a (case study | screen cast script | web copy | etc). Tell me your price."
  • Me: (Sigh) "I charge $xxx - $yyy for jobs like that.
  • Them: Dead silence, gone forever.

It seems like the small fry are in the biggest hurry to do a quick poll and avoid engaging with the provider.

Just to transpose this kind of question to more technology focused providers, it's exactly the same kind of question that gets asked of software providers: "What would you charge to write a web site/DLL/.Net application for us?" With absolutely no further detail provided.

But I also wonder if I am mishandling these types of requests entirely.

My question is this:

How should I handle a price or rate request from a prospect who seems too antsy to discuss any details or who is extremely vague and general?

Is it asking too much to say (in essence) I'll give you a ballpark range when you give me 15 minutes of your time to discuss details or you spell out what you need in writing"?

Most of what I do professionally I can't really put into an online shopping cart. There are many variables:

  • Is it one shot business or does the client need several related pieces of work? (bundling may lower the price I can charge.)
  • How much research does the deliverable require? (Some clients have lots of raw information in hand. Others may have a project that requires digging and interviews.)
  • What is the client's level of expectation of the work? (Direct response copy is quite labor intensive. Informational content that doesn't have a requirement of eliciting a conversion in itself usually requires less effort.)

The general concensus among working copywriters in private fora is that clients who fit this pattern overall are not reasonable.

I wanted to hear what is going on in the head of users and customers for a change on this subject. Any professional forum of the same kind of pro tends to be an echo chamber.

Also, it would be interesting to read what has worked for other independent contractors who receive pings from the general public.

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So you are angry and wrote all sorts of stuff about people who are concerned about what they are spending money on. Why don't you just tell them your hourly rate? What are you afraid of? Put your rates on your web site and then refer people to that and then they will stop wasting your time. The world is full of tire-kickers. Get over it. – TimJ♦ Feb 12 '12 at 19:01
Based on what I read of your samples I would not expect you to be calling prospects "idiots" - if that is how you see your potential customers or the people who ask legitimate questions then no wonder you are ranting and raving. – TimJ♦ Feb 12 '12 at 19:17
I'll add a bit of context - my own experiences in aggressive price shopping. When I was much younger I would demand a price over the phone from an insurance agent, an attorney, etc... and I was really not in a mental position to buy. Nothing anyone could tell me except "2 for 1" or "free" would have satisfied me. When I was ready to buy, I'd be open to a conversation. I am wondering if that pattern applies in general. – user2757 Feb 12 '12 at 19:21
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So then you already know that this rant is useless and you should just find a way to talk to the people who will waste their own time before finding out if they can afford you. face it - you are in a business where it is hard to tell good from bad and great from mediocre. Complaining about the buyers is not the solution. Make yourself stand out. Whining about other people's behaviors wastes your time and makes you look insecure (among other things). Find a way to deal with it and move on. – TimJ♦ Feb 12 '12 at 19:27

5 Answers

up vote 3 down vote accepted

There are only 2 good ways to answer the price first shopper. In my work I get this about 10 times a day. If the person is a real high "D" (for dominance) then I'll usually jest first.

How can I help you?

D: How much does it cost?

Me: 25k

D: Are you kidding me? Why is it so expensive?

Me: Because we have spent no time actually discussing what I would be doing, but I'll do anything (in my line of work) for $25k.

Usually they laugh, slow down and we can move to the more meaningful version.

Whats the pain I need to solve, what kind of budget do you have to solve it, and how do they make a decision. If they ask for price more than twice, take whatever you were thinking in your head, double it and let them Caspar.

I suggest reading "You cant teach a kid to ride a bike at a seminar" by David Sandler. His system for preserving your identity/ ego in a professional sales environment is second to none. It stresses no proposals, no free consulting (which is what the prospect is essentially after). My closing % went up 25% and 8 out of 10 times we never talked about the actual deliverable... we just found what the pain was and what I would need to solve it. The means/ product become kind of tertiary. I got more and better clients, better relationships with the clients, and my price points rose 20%. Most the feedback above comes from people who clearly have never had to sell a subjective/ creative service. It is CRITICAL they respect you as the professional upfront or no amount of money makes it a good deal.

Go back through your last 100 or whatever reasonable number clients and figure out how many were just about price. I think you'll find its very very low and probably the worst per hour jobs. So when you come across someone who seems to be deciding mostly on price, dedicate as little time as possible remaining professional but succinct. Get to the price then actively disqualify. I'll even send them links to the lowest priced options in my field so I know they knew their options going in.

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Ultimately, this is exactly what I need to do and you identified the core problem. The problem as you implied is more sweeping than a confrontational leading question. The "no proposals, no free consulting" is consulting nirvana. Thanks for the book recommendation. – user2757 Feb 13 '12 at 16:44
up vote 3 down vote

On occasion, I design type for movies, tv shows, advertising, and small firms. When they call up and directly ask what I charge per hour I tell them. ($350 an hour) Tire kickers then leave and don't bother me anymore.

Of course most of the time we don't start out with the "how much do you charge per hour" question. It's my job to guide these people through the process of having a font designed. I know how to get to the bottom of what they need and how quickly they need it. Then I can price out their project. But I'm never embaressed to tell them my hourly rate.

I have had a few customers tell me they could buy the same type design tool I use for just 1 hour of my time. My response:

  1. Yes you can
  2. Then you probably need to buy a copy of the printed manuals for an extra $100
  3. Then you will need a couple of books on type design (($100)
  4. Then spend a 100+ hours just learning how to properly use the software
  5. Then add in 50+ hours do your project

And it won't look half as good as what I can do in 10 hours and have finished for you next week.

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+1 this is the way people should be treated and the way questions should be answered - not by patronizing or with frustration or – TimJ♦ Feb 13 '12 at 6:23
up vote 2 down vote

Warning signs for me:

And I believe it is beneath me (yup, you got it) to answer the up front rate/price question directly

That says it all... arrogant and unapologetic

In 95% of the cases with smaller businesses who approach me, the initial question from the lead is "what is your pricing/rate?"

Then you should figure out how to cater to them to get their business, or figure out how to weed them out so you don't have to deal with the unwashed masses.

This rankles me so much I blogged about it

You are wasting your time. You are not going to change most people/small businesses. Figure out a way to stand out without getting rankled or ranting about it on your "blog". By being condescending to your audience you are driving more of a wedge between you and perspective customers. Just a thought - Consider providing real value to people - holding seminars or giving free copy to some folks if they allow it as a case study - educate people to do it themselves and then you will be sought after.

So maybe it does not matter what I say to such a prospect since nothing will be a "good" answer.

Bingo

So maybe it is my task here to avoid handing over free competitive information unless the prospect invests some minimal effort in telling me what they need.

Bzzzt. Wrong.

The general concensus [sic] among working copywriters in private fora is that clients who do this are not desirable, and are cheap. (To the point of labeling such prospects idiots.)

Wow. Nice to know what you really think of your customers/potential customers. Either figure out a way to deal with them politely or stop ranting about them.

How should I handle a price or rate request from a prospect who seems too antsy to discuss any details or who is extremely vague and general?

Certainly not by being vague and general yourself.

Have you considered the possibility that they don't know what they want/need and that it is part of your job to help them? If you can tune your pipeline to help these folks you win big. But instead, you mock them, deride them and tell them they are of no use to you on your own website and in a public forum. Not a great marketing move. (aren't copywriters esentially in the business of marketing and sales?)

As you already suggested - ask them what they want and explain what you will deliver and give a price. If they want to buy they will buy - if not, they won't. that's how it works. You have to figure out how to get an audience that matches your expectations (if that is possible)

The OP changed some content so there is a line about:

The general concensus [sic] among working copywriters in private fora is that clients who fit this pattern overall are not reasonable.

(desirable was changed to reasonable)

It is even more unreasonable for a service provider to expect potential customers NOT to be concerned about price - especially from a one-man-shop/no-name brand/company.

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up vote 0 down vote

One of the best ways to set expectations for price is with reference to a previous piece of work you did which you can use as a reference.

So for example is someone asks for a "simple 3 page site to showcase my lawn mowing business" you can say "Take a look at www.whatever.com, a site I did last year for a lemonade stand. After you look at it call me back and let me know if that is the sort of thing you are looking for." Don't quote a price until they call you back. If they don't call back it is either because they didn't like your work or the project wasn't real anyway. It could have just been someone at a competitor trying to find out what you charge for example.

When they call you back and tell you that yes, they want something similar to what you showed them you are half way home because they have already seen and like your work. Now you can tell them that you did that site for X price and they can have a site like it for the same X.

Now they are in a position of deciding that they can get want they want for X or something else perhaps cheaper. Most people prefer to get what they like and want whenever they can, even if it costs a little more.

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up vote 0 down vote

A very useful business rule I learned was 'You are either selling, or thinking you don't have to'.

There are some ideas that might work for your problems but the clear message in your post is that you don't like prospecting or finding new clients. If that's true then stop wasting your time on it and either get a sales person or build a network of referrers so you don't have to sell.

Tip: most business people do google searches on potential vendors. Your peers might like your blog posts but prospects will not.

edit: ok, I see you have edited your post as well as removing the blog link- great idea.

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