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I'm starting a new business and connected with a private investor via a personal friend. Negotiations started with him asking for 65% ownership for a $1 million dollar investment. I came back with 65% profit 49% ownership. He countered with 85% ownership AND 85% profit share. CRAZY right??? We discussed again, he's willing to have ownership transition over to me after pre-set time period. PS. he wants to be a "silent" partner, so I'm the founder and all the work is on me...HELP!!! I welcome all comments...

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7 Answers

Yes, taking 85% ownership from day one, and thus leaving the entrepreneur with just 15% is crazy. And almost certain to get the company killed; since the entrepreneur will be unlikely to feel sufficiently motivated by 15% to work like a slave for a few years.

On the other hand, reading between the lines, it sounds a lot like you asked for 1 million dollars without having anything real to show. Do you have a working prototype, do you have some early adopters who have purchased the product and are using it now, or at least have expressed a strong need for the product? If not, you're going at it all wrong, and you won't be able to attract good investment.

he wants to be a "silent" partner, so I'm the founder and all the work is on me

Another big red flag. "Silent" partners often end up being anything but silent. And this isn't what smart, successful investors would say -- on the contrary, smart money would let you know that they have connections within the industry which your startup will benefit from.

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No working prototype, its a membership-only salon/lounge concept, we've identified great location and marketing channels/plan. I understand the risk is completely on investor, however, who wants 85% of a concept? He does because he's accountant has reviewed our financials, surveys and focus groups results and potential revenue, otherwise why invest in first place?? Our startup cost is approx $500k, addtl $500 working cap. At the end of day, I didn't start a biz to work for someone else...but I realize its a big investment on a new business... – user7228 Feb 10 '11 at 1:26
Thanks Jesper, I agree. He has stated that he has a network that the startup will benefit from. What truly makes an investor "successful"? He just purchased a golf club for 11 million.. – user7228 Feb 10 '11 at 1:39
@Dionne: I think you need to find some entrepreneurs who have experience in the club/lounge scene. To me, 1 million investment up front for a lounge concept that can easily be copied sounds completely unwarranted. On the other hand, nice lounges with high quality interiors are obviously not cheap to get started... I think you need advise from someone who knows that scene much better than I do.. :-) – Jesper Mortensen Feb 10 '11 at 1:53
the simple answer is his accountant ran the numbers and decided that was what he needed to get his money back plus a profit. (or the accountant said 75% and the investor bumped it up to 85%). Unless you have a track record of managing this type of business you are not in a good negotiating position. And with a 15% you have very little incentive to make it work but accountants don't get that. – james Feb 11 '11 at 3:19
James, you are right on point. This investor has experience in the salon and lounge business and is aware of the potential revenue generated from the liquor alone. It wasnt until AFTER his accountant reviewed, he proposed 85%. Thanks for input! – user7228 Feb 11 '11 at 15:04

Before I did anything else I would verify that he A) has funds, B) can spend them. People with a million dollars to invest in a single startup venture are not the sort of people that negotiate that way.

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+1. I've never heard such a thing either. – David Feb 10 '11 at 14:33

Don't do it. 85% is not fair for any deal and is not in the spirit of being a partner. Partners want to help each other not screw each other and this is setup to be a bad deal that will get worst.

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Yup, that is crazy.

The general ownership rule for startups (fully diluted) is 40-40-20. Founders-Investors-Employees. Profit share may be great in the short term, but it is secondary to your ultimate exit strategy. Are you banking on your profits or looking for an acquisition? Hard to say without knowing more about your business.

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You need to be very careful before agreeing to something like this. Make sure:

  • The transition conditions are clearly spelled out, and tolerable and achievable for you
  • You'll get enough money yourself to live on, and to make whatever payments may be needed to gain ownership

Here's an example of what can happen if you don't do that - it sounds astonishingly like how you could wind up around your salon/lounge.

A friend of mine had gone through instructor training in an international franchise-based system (United Studios of Self Defense), and they put him together with an investor to open a new school. It was similar to your deal: the investor put up most of the money and took most of the profits, but my friend was supposed to be able to buy him out over time. I believe the transition was agreed to under a "handshake deal" rather than being put on paper.

My friend was an exceptional martial arts sensei, got named Instructor of the Year for the entire international organization, and the school was very successful - but all the benefits went to the investor. My friend wound up sleeping in the school because he couldn't afford an apartment, let alone buy out the investor. And the investor? He was making lots of money, and didn't want to give up ownership.

My friend was finally about ready to just give up and close the school... when there was a happy ending.

Several well-off people who knew him through the school got together and loaned him enough money to buy the investor out at a price that was higher than was discussed during the "handshake deal". After he was free of the investor sucking all the money out of the school, my friend was suddenly quite comfortable. He paid off the loan, opened a second school location, bought a house, and eventually sold the two schools for enough money to kick back and travel the world for a year with his girlfriend. They got married, and had enough money left over to open a fitness studio, which they're both still running.

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That guy is nuts and so would if you accept such a deal. Think your idea through. Lower your expenses if you can't find investors for a higher end establishment. Also many a times you can be high end as well cheap if you try to find a niche which did not exist before. It's value can come form it's uniqueness. I would say you try to go for some sort of financing wherein you payback the investor from your club's earning with interest and keep it separate from your profits.

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Don't get involved with this guy.

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